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Micropoecilia obscura


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#1 harryknaub

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 09:42 PM

Two months ago, I acquired a group of guppies with this name on the bag. However, when I search Fishbase looking for this fish what I find is a page for Poecilia obscura. Can anyone help clear this up. Any other sites that I should look at. 



#2 kwksand

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:32 PM

The species description is available here:
[url="https://www.mapress....zt02266p050.pdf
The use of "Micropoecilia" for this species is a little strange, but I tend to favor it.

#3 harryknaub

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:27 AM

Thanks. I can't connect to this right now but I'll try later.



#4 harryknaub

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 01:22 AM

I read the abstract last night. Good info on their habitat. Thanks again.



#5 danfromm

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 02:12 AM

The species description is available here:
[url="https://www.mapress....zt02266p050.pdf
The use of "Micropoecilia" for this species is a little strange, but I tend to favor it.

This has been discussed ad nauseam in the systematics community.  Micropoecilia is a subgenus of Poecilia.  Raising it to genus level will cause major damage because the common guppy is one of the most studied fishes.  A name change will add confusion and make finding older guppy research harder.

 

Oh, and by the way, Trinidadian guppy experts don't regard P. obscura as valid.  I've seen an unpublished study of guppy genetics in Trinidad that makes the point strongly.   



#6 harryknaub

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 01:47 AM

So they think it's just a strain of P. reticulata?



#7 danfromm

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 06:09 PM

Harry, they don't differentiate between strains.  P. (A.) reticulata or something else entirely.  Give the Oropouche guppy time and continued geographic isolation from other guppies, in particular those in the Caroni drainage, and it may evolve into something else.  Probably isn't there yet, though.

 

If you have the interest and spare cash -- it isn't inexpensive -- buy a copy of Anne Magurran's The Trinidadian Guppy.  It is in the Oxford Series in Ecology and Evolution.



#8 harryknaub

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 12:09 AM

I don't know very much about guppy systemics. I remember a few years ago there was some discussion about whether P wingei was a separate species or not. If P obscura is not a separate species, How would you differentiate. As a color variant. In fact, does P reticulata differ from "obscura" in appearance?



#9 danfromm

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 05:23 PM

Harry, I just took a look at the obscura description.  It can be differentiated from reticulata only by gene sequences.  As I've told you, ichthyologists in Trinidad don't think this works and neither does Anne Magurran.  Buy her book.  Read her book.

 

I also revisited the wingei description.  I'm not convinced.  Many others are.

 

The problem is that guppies are very variable.  My Trinidadian guppies, descended from just a few females, certainly are. 



#10 Lisachromis

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 02:29 PM

The species description is available here:
[url="https://www.mapress....zt02266p050.pdf
The use of "Micropoecilia" for this species is a little strange, but I tend to favor it.

That link does not seem to work for me.



#11 danfromm

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 09:05 PM

Try this one http://citeseerx.ist...p=rep1&type=pdf






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